| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| silver |
Hardcore's artists and labels are laying down the law to unlicensed CD and tape packs what do you think? |
| Underloop |
I've already stated my views on this..... artists should receive the money they deserve IMO.
I mean its not even like they are getting any promotion as tracklistings aren't included so nobody knows what the tunes actually are unless they go to the effort of asking around on a site like this.
The situation needs sorting out, but losing tape/cd packs altogether would be a huge shame! Even worse would be if Slammin' decided enough was enough and packed it all in!
Matthew aka DJ Underloop |
| GregE |
well i think it is a load of horse shit and people geting greedy.
the following is a listing in aussie $
1, DJ buys 20 records (bout $20 each of which AT LEAST $10 would go to the record company)
2, DJ produces a mix CD (no $$$ to record company, also no money to DJ)
3, DJ mixes at a party, othere DJ's hear tracks/mixing and go off and buy record (X*$10 to record lables)
5, DJ makes mix CD and SELLS IT FOR A PROFIT now THIS is where royalities should be paid, not before. now by this i dont mean a local web site selling for like $5-10 that does not make a profit if u factor time and costs in...
I have talked to a number of international DJ's/ DJ's that are making some form of a living out of what they do...all of these people agree, to mix it u got to have it....that simple and if u arnt making a profit with it then how in hells name are u expected to pay royalities??? the end resuult of this will be that the price of dance music events will go up and attendances go down...who wants that???
silver u didn't put an option for "thinks its a load of horse shit and people being to greedy" so i didn't vote.....
Greed is an evil weed
Once u plant its seed
it is hard to get rid of indeed....
OUT
GregE
PS it is goin to cost record companies more in the long run processing the requests to play their tracks...
I EAT KANGEROOS!!! |
| mrc |
i have voted i dont understand, i mean i understand the situation, just not the problem.
Hardcore Music represents itself with very little advertising, the tape pacs are a great form of free ad! I bet u dont hear many up and comers pushing this as it only benifits those at the top and it wont benifit us as the consumer cuz u dont get a variety of hardcore w/o tape pacs.
I hope this doesent spell the end for tape pacs cuz itll all have be vinyl, No offence but the CD's that have come out reasently have kept me interested for about...hhhmmm.....10 mins.
oh s*it man, what was i saying? |
| djDMS |
Producers/labels deserve recognition and should be paid what they're entitled to - it's that simple.
I can't understand those people who say 'they get paid for DJ'ing etc etc so they shouldn't mind'.
Rubbish.
Why should Events profit from somebody elses work?
|
| GregE |
ok, so you are willing to pay an extra $400 per event that you go to??? considering that most of it is goin to the record companies and you will have the same DJ's and same sound lights etc etc ???
mrc has hit the nail on the head, mix CD's are the best advertising ever, if they want $$$$$ encrypt all CD releases that are sold for a profit, and rain in royalities that way
OUT
GregE
I EAT KANGEROOS!!! |
| Underloop |
quote:
Originally posted by djDMS:
I can't understand those people who say 'they get paid for DJ'ing etc etc so they shouldn't mind'.
Yeah, I'd just like to put forward the argument agains the getting paid for DJing case. Lets take a typical HH night (the upcoming Valentine's gig):
DJs playing:
Scott Brown
Hixxy
DJ Sy
Darren Styles
Mark EG
Kevin Energy
Billy Bunter
Outblast & King Matthew
Slipmatt '95 Classics Set
Paul Glazby
Mark EG
Brisk
Breeze
Simon Underground
M-Zone
Jon Doe
D-Ice & Reality
OK, great, so all the big labels will be compensated (Raverbaby, Evo, NG/BB, Nu Energy etc) However, what about all the smaller labels that really need the cash injection in order to keep their label open for business? Labels such as DFM, Digital Beatz, Masterwax, Warped Science etc. I also notice that Essential Platinum isn't represented so no money will come to them even indirectly from the sale of tape packs.
And forgetting about the labels, what about the artists who don't DJ? Absolutely zip, diddley squat, sweet F.A., zilch, nadda etc....
Right, I hope, has quoshed (pun intended!  ) another argument for licencing on tape packs.
I wasn't sure on the figures before, but Silver posted in another thread that 18% of the price is payable for royalties. That ain't too bad surely Slammin? allowing for £12 per unit manufacturing and distribution (which I am sure is a being generous) then that still leaves £4 profit per unit which ain't bad at all really!
Matthew aka DJ Underloop |
| Dj Vapour |
the only problem with licencing tracks for Tapepacks would be each dj writing down what they played on paper and what label its on
there may even be tunes that arnt signed anywhere yet that are played
it can get messy
|
| silver |
^^^ There would be an artist that made the tune, so if the track is not signed yet the artist would get the money... Easy as....
__________________________________
it's all hardcore. |
| Underloop |
quote:
Originally posted by Dj Vapour:
the only problem with licencing tracks for Tapepacks would be each dj writing down what they played on paper and what label its on
there may even be tunes that arnt signed anywhere yet that are played
it can get messy
My understanding was that you are supposed to do that anyway for the PRS licence for the event..... is this wrong?
Matthew aka DJ Underloop |
| djDMS |
quote:
Originally posted by GregE:
ok, so you are willing to pay an extra $400 per event that you go to??? considering that most of it is goin to the record companies and you will have the same DJ's and same sound lights etc etc ???
mrc has hit the nail on the head, mix CD's are the best advertising ever, if they want $$$$$ encrypt all CD releases that are sold for a profit, and rain in royalities that way
OUT
GregE
I EAT KANGEROOS!!!
Fine, but even if a DJ was going to release a mix CD he'd licence the tracks anyway - and it would more than likely be predominantly his music.
If somebody else decided to sell it without anybody's permission it would be wrong.
END OF
I look forward to you giving me all your work/ideas for me to sell at a profit.
Cheers!
|
| Leelo1 |
i dont think itll be a very dramatic change ppl will still do it they just wont sell em in shops but keep em more and more underground
i belive the dj should make his money bac but not a pis*takin profit they deserve respect
DO NOT DISTURB DJ IN PROGRESS
Leelo_1 |
| GregE |
my argument is this, Dj's make mix CD's (that is mix record it to CD in there house) then GIVE it out...for them to pay royalities is just unreasonable, it it wasa simple request to put the track names artist etc etc on back then i can understand but the whole licenceing thing is just excessive.
If u Dj at a gig and u have a contract then by rights u should ensure your lable is on the flier (thus more free advertising for record companies) and if a DJ mixes well with a variety then it encourages others to buy tracks etc etc MORE advertising "gee i wonder where those tunes came from they were really cool, OH i know there was a lable on the flier i will go online/to my store and have a look for stuff on that label"
but yeah if u are selling the things for a profit and once again that aint just covering cost but mass producing and selling on a comercial basis that will make substantial profit then yes as i said royalities must be given.
As for the "not haveing a great effect" down here in aussie land peoples are now shitting themselves about putting out mix CD's and yeah it is really quite disturbing...
OUT
GregE
I EAT KANGEROOS!!! |
| Dj Vapour |
quote:
Originally posted by silver:
^^^ There would be an artist that made the tune, so if the track is not signed yet the artist would get the money... Easy as....
__________________________________
it's all hardcore.
oh yeah !
|
| Simon |
I'm staying out of this one (see first time for evrything  ), I don't believe that either argument is correct, or incorrect to be honest, this one will run and run (like the Hutton inquiry), everyone knows the morale answer, but is the morale answer always the right answer. Obviously I don't know and/or understand ALL the FACTS so I can't make a fair judgement either way. So I'm gonna sit on the fence for this one.
I think this argument goes a lot deeper than I (The average music fan) can possibly imagine!
___________________________________________________________
"Hush little baby, don’t say a word
And never mind that noise you heard
It’s just the beast under your bed,
In your closet, in your head"
|
| DJ Mouse |
right so first they go out and play their tunes made a few days before and still expect royalties?
they've managed before without any so they can still do it.
also whether the tape packs are licensed or not they're an ultimate promotion tool. and when we see a load disappear coz the price has been bumped so high no one will buy the packs,the dj's will start to miss out coz not as many have heard the tracks leading to not as many buying it.
--------------------------------------------------
"I had 2 half-brothers and they both died, so Mummy took the chainsaw off me"
DJ Mouse
http://hardcorehq.tk
ps. if ya think you can live off royalties then think again. its something like a few pence per unit, and in a scene like ours not many units will be sold. not worth the effort. |
| silver |
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Mouse:
ps. if ya think you can live off royalties then think again. its something like a few pence per unit, and in a scene like ours not many units will be sold. not worth the effort.
Thats the worst comment I have ever heard...
To everyone else complaining about tape packs and CD's I thought you all had more intelligence... what the **** is wrong with paying artists?
Second, when you buy a vinyl you don't own the track, you can't copy it, you can't do anything, the labels and artists have been quite fair about this but when a massive event promotor releases a CD pack of all those artists new tunes, does not tell anyone they are recordings and charges 15 pounds for the pack with no money going to the people that made those tunes, just to the promotor then that is wrong... very ****ing wrong... and if you think otherwise your freaking stupid.
Don't give me shit that that money will go back into making the events bigger, all they had to do is give a tiny 18% to the artists and everyone would be happy. That 18% then would make more hardcore tunes. The event promotors are selling something they don't even own... it's like selling air - They don't own it to sell it!
15 pounds is more than a regular hardcore CD and those companies that release these CD's manage to give 18% to the artists without a problem, so if the price increases on tape packs it is because of the greedy promotor!
This topic has me so pissed off...
__________________________________
it's all hardcore. |
| DarrenJ |
I think its great, I live in Aus and I have seen 3 or 4 Cd's baised on live Hardcore events...dunno if they were licenced (well the MOH one was duh)
I think in no way does Australian hardcore scene depend on these cds...insane to think a scene depends on bootlegging
The artist will get paid, which will help them make more great tunes for us to enjoy
well I, I will, I will hardcore |
| GregE |
OK, some points of clarification.
1, by Mix CD i am talking about somting produced BY DJ's, that is NOT sold for profit...ie i mix CD give to u "have a listen tell me what u think" or "here man give me me $ or a blank CD and i will do u some sets
2, Silver 100% with u someone is making money OFF the CD (ie selling it for a PROFIT) then yes $$$$ should be given to artist.
3, $10AUS for a CD = bout 2 pound...if a promoter sells the shit for that much they yeah stick their balls in a vice till they cough up the $$$
4, i am not saying that it would go into making bigger and better parties, i am just saying that the break even would be 18% higher, or dependant on how u read it it may be 18% per lable...either way an 18% higher break even = 18% (or more) hike in the cost of a ticket..
i aint trying to jip people out of $, i am just trying to work out WTF is wrong with the way things are now (excepting people makeing PROFIT with out paying royalities)
on that note is every single track that u play on HHC radio licenced??? do u pay royalities off the advertising on this site???
darenJ "I think in no way does Australian hardcore scene depend on these cds" u just admitted listening to them.....u just contrdicted your own statment....
OUT
GregE
I EAT KANGEROOS!!! |
| DarrenJ |
" u just admitted listening to them.....u just contrdicted your own statment...."
I havnt listened to a illegal mix cd....
Iv seen them but always gone for a QUALITY cd
I would rather a bonkers, DJ mixed or a artists/record labels lp then a cd like "ultra sonic live in sydney 2002"
anyway Mc's are annoying :P dont get them on studio mix CD's
edit: I think silver is doing th best he can I make this site go well, and its a great site...he isnt made of money, and I dont think he is profitting since he asks politly for donations... Im sure they are licenced or has permission from the labels
well I, I will, I will hardcore |
| silver |
quote:
Originally posted by GregE:
on that note is every single track that u play on HHC radio licenced???
Yes, because our broadcast point is from New York we pay the RIAA for an online radio broadcast license.
__________________________________
it's all hardcore. |
| DJ Mouse |
woah didn't think i'd get a reaction like that silver. apologies i'll take it back. i never realised it was 18%, thought it was something like 2% hence why i said it wasn't worth the effort.
so in that case,yeh you're right. a fifth of the profits to the artists would go a long way,and hardly breaking the promotor's bank coz of all the other merchandise and profits from the night itself
--------------------------------------------------
"I had 2 half-brothers and they both died, so Mummy took the chainsaw off me"
DJ Mouse
http://hardcorehq.tk |
| mrc |
i spoke to my Music Business tutor yesterday about this, she has experiance of running an undergroud lable and cuttin room. I didnt talk much about the royalty issue, more the history side.
I had nothing to do with the seen around 10 years as i was 9 but i seems if i was id be raving (ILEGALLY) in a factory or warehouse listening to (UNLICENCED) material containig (AGAIN UNLICENCED) sampls.
It was ok 2do it then....how ironic??????
Lets not 4get how big (or small) this seen is. it runs on different rules and has broken so many laws in the past (regarding drugs and music) and will probibily continue to do so.
Has the can of worms been opened?
The people who support this seen (and by this im talking about the consumer who pays, as a group, for the majority of everything within the seen) could have a wider range of selection of music, lower ticket prices and bigger events simply by listening to any other form of more established music, but they dont. why? cuz we love the music and the seen, tape pacs are a part of this. I think there will be some happy people in the major record companies.
I fully understand that these dj's deserve recognition for what they have done, there are some dj's who deserve more than theyll ever receve but i think this coud be bighting the hand that feeds them just a little too hard.
oh s*it man, what was i saying? |
| DJ Mouse |
hmm,music business
are ya at hudds tech by any chance?
--------------------------------------------------
"I had 2 half-brothers and they both died, so Mummy took the chainsaw off me"
DJ Mouse
http://hardcorehq.tk |
| mrc |
yer m8, u been there?
oh s*it man, what was i saying? |
| Midway_raver |
quote:
15 pounds is more than a regular hardcore CD and those companies that release these CD's manage to give 18% to the artists without a problem, so if the price increases on tape packs it is because of the greedy promotor!
But u forget a cd has to licencse ALOT less tracks. if theres 12 dj's in a pack each playing i dunno 20 tunes, that alot of money to fork out for licensing!!!
I ask ANY dj on here, wud u ov got where u are today if u hadn't have broke copywright laws sumwhere?!?!?
Also to the established artists where's the money you owe other artists for ripping there tracks!!?? I'm not agenst ripped tunes i love alot of em but if u want paying royalties then start paying them urselves 2 da artists who deserve them!! Otherwise drop the tape pack issue, if you don't it's totally hypocritical!!
You will not laugh, You will not cry, You will learn by the numbers! |
| Underloop |
quote:
Originally posted by Midway_raver:
But u forget a cd has to licencse ALOT less tracks. if theres 12 dj's in a pack each playing i dunno 20 tunes, that alot of money to fork out for licensing!!!
No, its a flat percentage of what you sell it for that you have to pay to the mcps (and whatever other organisations - PRS and PPL too I think). This percentage of the selling price then gets split down between all the artists featured on the CD/Tape.
So, it doesn't cost any more to put more tracks on it, it just means that the artists get less per track.
Thats my understanding of it at least. I'm sure somebody more experienced will correct me if I'm wrong.
Matthew aka DJ Underloop |
| Midway_raver |
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Midway_raver:
But u forget a cd has to licencse ALOT less tracks. if theres 12 dj's in a pack each playing i dunno 20 tunes, that alot of money to fork out for licensing!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, its a flat percentage of what you sell it for that you have to pay to the mcps (and whatever other organisations - PRS and PPL too I think). This percentage of the selling price then gets split down between all the artists featured on the CD/Tape.
So, it doesn't cost any more to put more tracks on it, it just means that the artists get less per track.
Thats my understanding of it at least. I'm sure somebody more experienced will correct me if I'm wrong.
Oops, my limited knowledge of the music biz showing thru agen
You will not laugh, You will not cry, You will learn by the numbers! |
| genericrevolution |
artist: Jack Goff <<makes a tune presses it on white label and his distributing record company sends it out on Jack's behalf (with his blessing) because jack wants people to hear and buy it when it is released etc...
DJ: eg Slipmatt <<< is sent this tune to try out on the crowd as a white label promo! and is given a sheet to complete and send back to distributing company re: reactions and thoughts (normal proceedure)...
so slipmatt tries tune out a slammin vinyl and then everyone who buys a tape pack then has this tune on it. (but slipmatt was asked to try it why should he pay royalties) - by demand of ravers > tape packs released of nite (why should slammin vinyl pay out royalties of what DJ's play - plus they have already paid the DJ's for playing a set that they have very limited input on)
Jack then hears this tape pack and is well pleased that Godfather Slipmatt has played his choon and everyone loves it... he then releases the choon and everyone is fighting at record shops to buy it (he gets a percentage cut of profit from distributor when sales are complete)
but then Bonkers also want to put it on their new album (jack should get royalties from this)
slipmatt does a album CD for release - he should pay royalties for this album.
but then slipmatt plays another set for another rave - he should NOT pay royalties for this set. the rave should also not have to pay royalties either..
so joe bloggs walks into record shop and buys Jack's new choon... he mixes a CD for SALE IN SHOPS - joe should pay royalties on this... but then joe gifts out a stack of CD's to mates and companies to hear him he should not have to pay royalties for this!
well thats how I see it... clear as mud
|
| mr bishi |
quote:
Originally posted by Silver:
This topic has me so pissed off...
I had a feeling it would,its always been clear you are not the biggest fan of piracy :p
My opinion is that as long as people aren't getting in shite for passing out demos and the like,i don't mind an extra few quid on tape pack if the money is going to the artist not slammin.
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think
not."
Homer Jay Simpson |
| genericrevolution |
and as long as I can mix and upload my set for people to download without getting spanked for it... I don't mind!!!
|
| Kx Hardcore |
I think artists and the label manufacturers should get the money they deserve so they can get onto bringing out more and more tunes without any problems
Dont Forget The Cry Hardcore Will Never Die!! |
| capone13 |
I don't really have a problem with the unlicensed cd/tape packs because it gives the artists more of a chance to let people hear their tunes and it will make them go out and buy them anyway, so it could be classed as promotion. It also lets up and coming DJ's that play at events get noticed, cause people say (Who's that? he's pretty good, wouldn't mind getting a mix of his!)
DJ J-me |
| SickPigRecords |
hardcore wasn't to get wedge
4 the love of it and shiznit
if u want to make money u are in the wrong game unless it is commercialized
and then it WILL lose it's hardcore
plur ring any bells
tiz allready fading
this subject makes me most sad..
KILLER_V8 >:)
http://sick-pig-records.tripod.com/
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/chemistrysickpigrecords.htm |
| ryg0r |
SickPig, I disagree.
Artists that spend enormous amounts of time making records deserve every penny. And they need it too. For Scotty, sales are his bread and butter. If he didn't get enough sales, he wouldn't have money for rent/food/undies/buying new gear/etc....
I think its good that the artists get paid, but also a downside because the wouldn't be as many CD's mixes and thus the distribution of hardcore would be diminshed.
This thing has its pluses and its downside.
-=[ryg0r]=- |
| djscorch |
If artists get royalties for the tracks of theirs that are played then everyone is gonna get scott brown syndrome and just play their own stuff all night - why play someone elses tunes if you can get paid for playing your own. This will be detrimental on the quality of sets - everyone will be doing their own live PA. Tapepacks have been going for years - they are a massive part of the culture, and problems like this have never arisen before. I think it's a sign of hardcore getting bigger, but also getting a little bit stuck up itself. It will reach the point where all the best sets will be played by up and coming dj's who don't give a shit and just play the tunes they think are wicked rather than worrying who is gonna get paid.
Seize the moment |
| slipknot02946 |
i see where this can go but free downloads=kick@$$  we all kno.
as for money to the record labels man they get publicity for sponsering so they should stfu its the starting bands that need the profits!! 
|
| lucificifus |
Unless your here for the gabber, forgive me for what I am about to say:
1) What the hell are you talking about? What record labels soaking up WHAT profit? Is there profit in hardcore? Since WHEN!
2) Refer to 1
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lookame! Ima attention whore! |
| jenks |
Free downloads don't bother me because most hardcore fanatics would much sooner have a nice official CD than some mp3 on their pc...
|
| Jax |
i think illegal downloads only make the hardcore scene bigger. how many people download free mp3's and how many download ones they have to pay for? If it all goes legal the music wont get out to as many people, which is a bad thing IMO
|
| kathryn |
I say keep selling the tapes,cd's whatever. I have been buying since early 90's and think its a good thing! Plus i think hardcore artists are paid enuff or they wouldnt keep bringing out these wicked cd,s. 'How else can i say, it i dont speak no other languages, so buckle up cos it,s gonna get Bumpy'
kmcginty |
| whispering |
quote:
Originally posted by kathryn:
Plus i think hardcore artists are paid enuff or they wouldnt keep bringing out these wicked cd,s.
What ive heard the artists dont get shit, its pretty much "charity" from their end to produce the tracks. So its rather stupid to say they are paid enough.
|
| B.C |
quote:
Originally posted by slipknot02946:
i see where this can go but free downloads=kick@$$ we all kno.
as for money to the record labels man they get publicity for sponsering so they should stfu its the starting bands that need the profits!!
think your on the wrong forums man. this is for hardcore electronic music-not hardcore rock.
"Let's All Get Down!!" |
