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djDMS
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
10,304 posts
Joined: Feb, 2003
572 hardcore releases
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 Posted - 2014/01/28 : 12:26:33
quote:
Originally posted by Torpex:
Show me one part of his post that wasn't constructive. And no, the "pirate" angle doesn't count, because it was used to support a very good point.
You agreeing with him doesn't mean his point any more valid.
The underlying 'HU is now shit because they don't do enough downloads' opinion is one i disagree with, simple as that.
Bringing piracy into it left him open to criticism whatever the initial point might have been.
I'm not a dick because i prefer CD's anymore than you are for wanting downloads.
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Taking my time to perfect the beat
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Torpex
Advanced Member
Poland
824 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 12:38:06
You might not view it as such, but yes, I think the attitude towards DJ-KC is dickish. You'll have a hard time finding a bigger supporter for HU than myself, and I'll defend them with passion, but well-reasoned criticism is essential - even if it's voiced harshly and with lots of hyperbole.
quote:
USB drives are cheap enough these days if you insist on buying something that doesn't have one built in but I don't see that being HU's problem.
It totally is HU's problem if the entire user landscape is shifting in this direction. To suggest that someone should buy an extra piece of hardware for this one label, while buying all other music digitally, isn't too realistic.
quote:
The piracy thing does come into it because that is the entire point that he won't get a USB drive or go to the library or whatever and he will just steal the the music when someone puts it online digitally.
I don't blame him. He's a customer who wants to support the music he loves and simply expects it to be available in a format he can use. Other providers of music he loves fulfill this expectation. HU should react and bridge this gap. It can be done without hurting the tangible side of things. :)
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GrahamC
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
589 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 12:38:16
Even as new technology comes in I refuse to believe that we don't all know somebody with a CD drive in their PC that would be happy for you to rip the album on their PC for you!
As an IT professional, despite my own works lappy having no optical drive, I think the average person abandoning the format now is being pretty stupid. Install from CD/DVD vs Download, eat your HDD space and then install - its a no brainer
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GrahamC
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
589 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 12:41:49
HU don't have to do anything they don't want to!
HU want to release CDs. Majority on here seem happy with that.
He doesn't have to buy a PC with a CD drive.
He is therefore not able to play CDs. That is his choice. Not an excuse to pirate the material.
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Torpex
Advanced Member
Poland
824 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 12:53:15
GrahamC, of course nobody HAS to do anything. However, I'm assuming HU cares about expanding the loyal fanbase, and that means, in the format/distribution area, catering to the expectations of people outside the 10-person hhc.com majority. ;) People already used to 100% digital models, reasonably expecting labels to adapt.
And besides, the guy seems to be of the pirate-and-donate kind, not pirate-and-don't-give-a-****. He WANTS to give HU his money, just in his (and the world's, as it happens) preferred format. :)
EDIT: Again, to emphasize, I'm arguing for tangible AND intangible. HU, in their current position, have options to neatly bridge this gap and cater to both worlds.
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Edited by - Torpex on 2014/01/28 12:57:50 |
GrahamC
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
589 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 13:07:19
I don't think you can say Digital is the worlds preferred format. I am not long back from HMV on my lunch break, it's busy and there was a decent sized queue, same at CEX. CDs in their hands.
'the guy seems to be of the pirate-and-donate kind, not pirate-and-don't-give-a-****' vs. 'but will have to wait for digital releases or pirated copies'
and how is he going to donate - 'Hi HU, I have illegally downloaded your albums, have some money'? How many people illegally downloading do you know who are doing that?
CDJAY says 'we have to primarily support the CD model' - obviously he has a good reason to have this point of view as as neither you or I have any inside intricate knowledge of their business it is extremely arrogant of you (or anybody else) to tell him or any other business what they need to do. It is theirs to run as they feel best.
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Torpex
Advanced Member
Poland
824 posts
Joined: Nov, 2005
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 13:24:53
I would definitely argue that digital is already dominant in HU's target group. In any case, it's a huge chunk of the market.
quote:
and how is he going to donate - 'Hi HU, I have illegally downloaded your albums, have some money'? How many people illegally downloading do you know who are doing that?
*sigh* I'm not saying he's going to do that. I'm saying that his hinted piracy would result from his inability to obtain music in a format he's comfortable with, not from an a priori intent to steal.
I don't think making business-related suggestions is arrogant in the slightest, but each to their own. While CDJay did say that CD is now their main and preferred format (and I do have a vested interest in things staying this way), he also mentioned that they've got "an agreeable middle ground mapped out", which is great news for everyone.
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GrahamC
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
589 posts
Joined: Dec, 2007
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 13:34:19
"I would definitely argue that digital is already dominant in HU's target group. In any case, it's a huge chunk of the market."
Singles yes, albums, No.
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 15:16:07
I think it's important to identify that HU is not a service. It's a company that releases music, and music - being subjective - is either take it or leave it. Labels should not be obliged to cater for the every need of their user. If a user is not compatible with the release, by no means is the label obliged to change their ethos of business model or that person. As it goes, HU release on CD, and that's a format most people have access to. I've seen labels release on vinyl-only recently, and the fans have either had to invest to enjoy, or leave it. It's not the labels problem.
If this KC guy wants to rip the music, he can buy an optical drive.
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latininxtc
Advanced Member
United States
7,307 posts
Joined: Feb, 2006
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 16:08:17
Wow that blew up very quickly!
I personally didn't like what DJ-KC said about HU's practices, and yes he is entitled to his opinion, but when he ends it with pirating the music as a solution, he lost all and any credibility there.
People who pirate music and come on here and explain their reason behind it are just full of shit. They never intended to pay for it in the first place, and are trying to find any reasoning whatsoever to blame other entities for leaving them no other choice, and for making themselves feel better about not having to pay for anything.
And I think the whole carbon footprint comment was a joke as well. You do realize that whether you buy the format in a digipak or digital download, you are still essentially supporting music where the artists travel around the world on fuel-burning planes and perform in facilities where they don't get the majority of their energy, if any, from environmentally-safe sources.
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Samination
Advanced Member
Sweden
13,072 posts
Joined: Jul, 2004
195 hardcore releases
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 16:19:09
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
Wow that blew up very quickly!
I personally didn't like what DJ-KC said about HU's practices, and yes he is entitled to his opinion, but when he ends it with pirating the music as a solution, he lost all and any credibility there.
People who pirate music and come on here and explain their reason behind it are just full of shit. They never intended to pay for it in the first place, and are trying to find any reasoning whatsoever to blame other entities for leaving them no other choice, and for making themselves feel better about not having to pay for anything.
And I think the whole carbon footprint comment was a joke as well. You do realize that whether you buy the format in a digipak or digital download, you are still essentially supporting music where the artists travel around the world on fuel-burning planes and perform in facilities where they don't get the majority of their energy, if any, from environmentally-safe sources.
I'd like you to explain how I ended up buying Hardcore instead of pirating it. But then maybe I could say it myself :P
It was actually the reversed. I started buying because the songs I like wasn't pirated yet.
Anyways, saying that pirates never buy is as dumb as when pirated say "it's digital information, it doesnt hurt sales", which everyone knows it isn't true to some extent. But I have to agree with everyone, saying that he'd pirate it didnt help his cause, as I think CDJay would probably help him get a digital copy if he bought the CD.
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Samination, Swedish Hardcore DJ
Happy, UK Hardcore, Freeform, Makina and Gabber
http://samination.se/
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2014/01/28 : 16:30:07
quote:
Originally posted by Samination:
quote:
Originally posted by latininxtc:
Wow that blew up very quickly!
I personally didn't like what DJ-KC said about HU's practices, and yes he is entitled to his opinion, but when he ends it with pirating the music as a solution, he lost all and any credibility there.
People who pirate music and come on here and explain their reason behind it are just full of shit. They never intended to pay for it in the first place, and are trying to find any reasoning whatsoever to blame other entities for leaving them no other choice, and for making themselves feel better about not having to pay for anything.
And I think the whole carbon footprint comment was a joke as well. You do realize that whether you buy the format in a digipak or digital download, you are still essentially supporting music where the artists travel around the world on fuel-burning planes and perform in facilities where they don't get the majority of their energy, if any, from environmentally-safe sources.
I'd like you to explain how I ended up buying Hardcore instead of pirating it. But then maybe I could say it myself :P
It was actually the reversed. I started buying because the songs I like wasn't pirated yet.
Anyways, saying that pirates never buy is as dumb as when pirated say "it's digital information, it doesnt hurt sales", which everyone knows it isn't true to some extent. But I have to agree with everyone, saying that he'd pirate it didnt help his cause, as I think CDJay would probably help him get a digital copy if he bought the CD.
I think piracy is necessary to a small extent. I found Hardcore by inexpensively trying out various genres that eventually led me to Hardcore - which at the time was the holy grail of music for me. I wouldn't have found it without Limewire, but as I got involved, I bought loads of music. However, what's ironic is that 99% of my Hardcore albums are 2nd hand. The music I own has been bought from other people, so my money doesn't go to the label or artists anyway. Now that I'm having my own albums pirated and shared across various Russian and Chinese websites, I'm not too concerned about it. I suppose as a small indie label owner, seeing THG being talked about and enjoyed is solace, because there's very little I can do to stop that movement.
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Warnman
Advanced Member
Germany
2,676 posts
Joined: Jun, 2010
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Posted - 2014/01/29 : 20:38:24
That'll be a must-have purchase for me! 
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Ravers unite!
"Happy Hardcore: Love it... hate it... it's fun!" (Matt Stokes)
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DJ-KC
Starting Member
United States
7 posts
Joined: Oct, 2008
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Posted - 2014/01/30 : 03:21:23
Wow my comment really took off.
To clear some things up. (possibly confuse things more) In this case I really like HU and really want to spend my money on these releases. I understand that HU has a business model they want to stick to. If that works for them it is their business. I simply wanted to voice my opinion about the lack of digital downloads because I do hope this label would consider catering to a demographic that prefers digital downloads. It seems as if their loyal fans are satisfied with physical releases and I understand how changing release formats could affect the company in negative ways.
about the piracy
I find this specific situation to be very interesting. It seems like HU prefers to have physical releases to control piracy and have a more stable release. In my case the physical release has driven me to pursue a pirated copy. I think HU's intended outcome of a physical release has been reversed. I included this detail to share to HU possible side effects of only releasing physical versions. I am not advocating piracy.
CDJay, I am excited to hear about the new ideas for downloading releases. I hope something can work to satisfy more listeners and protect the artists' content
To all the people saying I am stupid for not having an optical drive: For me, HU releases would be the only thing an optical drive would get used for. I think optical drives are fine for people that use them. I like moving toward new technology and yes, sometimes moving too fast gets you caught in some sticky situations.
Torpex, Thanks for having my back. I am not sure if you agree with me completely, but I do appreciate your respect.
I am slightly sorry for running this thread off tangent. This thread is about the Brisk release and I think it looks fantastic. One of my first Hardcore CD's was the Off Yer Nut 2 Brisk Mix. I only had one disc from the 3 haha. I loved it and am excited to see a newer release like this.
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Elipton
Advanced Member
United Kingdom
1,268 posts
Joined: Apr, 2013
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Posted - 2014/01/30 : 04:06:41
quote:
Originally posted by DJ-KC:
In my case the physical release has driven me to pursue a pirated copy.
You're not driven to do anything. You choose to obtain the CD by unlawful means ignoring the obvious choices available to you.
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